“If I scare you, I have entertained you” – Phat Joe on Unfollowed

What happens to a celeb who’s been cancelled? Each Wednesday, Showmax Original series Unfollowed takes us to meet South African stars who are wrestling with life after social media death. 

In Episode 2 of Unfollowed, Thembekile Mrototo steps into the ring to spar with TV and radio personality Phat Joe in what could be Unfollowed’s most gleefully combative interview.

Watch the trailer for Unfollowed

“We’re going to tattoo that baby”

Using his 2016 debut on East Coast Radio, when he announced that he was going to tattoo a baby on air, Phat Joe illustrates how he uses rage bait to create engagement. 

“This thing got so crazy that there were protests by Tuesday-Wednesday, outside the station. By Thursday, the MD couldn’t use a phone because the phones were ringing so heavily. And on Thursday, they’re like, ‘It’s too much; we have to cancel it.’ It was all a skit. And what happened? We were in the papers in Joburg. There were billboards on signposts talking about what we were doing on East Coast.”

“I was never fired … You’re the one with the accusations!”

In Unfollowed, Phat Joe addresses the greatest controversies of his career: the 2017 comment that got East Coast Radio slapped with a R30 000 BCCSA fine, his departure from Radio 2000, his suspension from Metro FM, and the one incident after which he actually was fired – when he stoked public debate about athlete Caster Semenya on Kaya FM in 2009.

“The day before I did my show, the news broke about what was happening with her (Caster*), and I noticed that everybody was going in one direction: She’s been wronged. And I’m not saying that she wasn’t. I said, “Well, what about the other side? Why would they go through all this trouble?” I took that approach to test the boundaries, to test the edge to see how people would respond, and I think it was one of the best shows ever on radio. Ever… What people don’t know is that my friend was working for a law firm that was representing her at the time. So when I do these things, it looks callous and crass and unplanned. But it’s so thoroughly planned, and it’s so ingenious… We put some gunpowder in that story.”

“My loyalty is to the audience, not to the news target that I’m talking about”

Throughout Unfollowed, Thembekile challenges Phat Joe over the ethics of courting controversy at the expense of marginalised members of society. 

Phat Joe: “My loyalty is to the audience, not to the news target that I’m talking about…The problem is that audiences, and the norms of a society, are constantly shifting. And it’s impossible for you to know everything about where society is at any point in time. The only thing that will make me feel like fixing whatever thing I did, is if a large enough proportion of my target market is offended.”

Thembekile: If there are 100 of us in a room…and one guy raises concern, do you write that off?

Phat Joe: I’m making burgers here. You don’t like burgers, but these 99 people want burgers, so now we all have to eat what you want to eat? No.

Thembekile: Do you pause to interrogate the substance of the critique?

Phat Joe: I don’t even have time. I’m focussed on the 99 people. Go to another restaurant.

Along with Thembekile and Phat Joe’s debates about ethics, boundaries and cancel culture, Phat Joe talks about how he started outearning his mom at the age of 17, and grew his career beyond the myth of the big break. And we find out his comments on King Goodwill Zwelithini earned death threats, but also arguably changed politics.

Nomsa Philiso, CEO of MultiChoice’s general entertainment division, describes Unfollowed as an opportunity for us to reflect on cancel culture and its place in pop culture – a chance to interrogate whether it’s the best way to deal with people who have been deemed problematic. The show interviews public figures who were cancelled on social media and lets the viewer decide if the treatment in each case was deserved.

Watch Unfollowed S1 on Showmax, with new episodes on Wednesdays.

*In 2009 South African Olympic athlete Caster Semenya underwent mandatory sex verification under the orders of the International Association of Athletics Federation, and the results were leaked to the public.